Menopause: How to Make the Most of This Phase of Life

Dr. Cooper

Welcome to the latest episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Bradford Cooper of the Catalyst Coaching Institute. And there’s a good chance this week’s episode will rocket right to the top of our charts in terms of downloads. Dr. Kyrin Dunston is a functional medicine physician who specializes in the healthy treatment and optimization of menopause. And anti-aging Dr. Dustin herself lost a life-changing 100 pounds resulting in the healing of many of her chronic diseases. She’s been featured on NBC, Fox in reader’s digest, the Huffington post and best self magazines. She’s also the host of her own podcast titled her brilliant health revolution. On the coaching front, the next NBHWC approved coaching certification training is set for March 20th and 21st, it’s virtual. So you can start the preliminary work as soon as you register if you’re one of those folks that likes to do things in advance details at CatalystCoachingInstitute.com, or we’re always happy to discuss with you, just shoot us an email Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com and we’ll set up a call to chat. Now it’s time to be a catalyst as we listen in with Dr. Kyrin Dunston on the latest episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast. Well, Dr. Dunston, it is such a privilege to have you here today, such a critical topic with menopause peri-menopause. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us in the midst of your schedule.

Dr. Dunston

Oh. I am so glad to be here. Grateful to talk about this topic anytime.

Dr. Cooper

That’s fantastic. So let’s, let’s not delay, let’s jump right in. What are the typical or common symptoms of both pre-menopause and menopause?

Dr. Dunston

Yeah, so peri-menopause which occurs, uh, usually between 40 and 50 for most women and menopause, which on average starts at the age of 51 in the United States actually, um, they have a lot of symptoms that usually start, can start as early as the age of 35, uh, in some women. So it varies, but what are the common symptoms? Well, there, the things that every woman at midlife that you and I know is complaining about, they may or may not complain to you. They’re complaining to their girlfriends and their sisters, and they, you know, all their females, the females in their community. And one of the first things that people will start to know notice is menstrual irregularity. So, whereas they’ve their whole life, they’ve been like clockwork, 28 days, 28 days, 28 days, they get their period. All of a sudden it doesn’t come at 28 days and they start wondering, are they pregnant? And then it comes at 31 days or 30 days, however long, it just starts becoming longer. And then that flow sometimes becomes heavier and more painful. So these are some of the first symptoms that women will notice, but they will also start to notice that weight is accumulating and, Oh, my jeans are fitting tight and, Oh, well over the holidays where I might gain a few pounds, cause maybe I indulge in foods that I don’t usually eat. And I did that, this, this holiday, but all of a sudden, usually that weight it’ll go away by the end of January and I’m to my normal size. It’s not going back. And then, Oh, let me exert some effort and try to cut my calories and increase my exercise and it doesn’t go away as quickly or as easily or at all. And so weight problems start to accrue. And then the next thing I’d say is energy fatigue. Women start noticing that, wow, I slept eight hours last night, wake up and I really want to hit that snooze button and they do hit it. And maybe then they’re late for their day and they’re just not feeling rested in the morning or maybe in the afternoon. They really just want to lay their head down on their desk and take a nap or early in the evening, right after dinner, where maybe they usually go to bed at nine or 10 at night. And they have activities that they do at night after dinner. They’re just thinking, I just want to go to bed now. So fatigue is very common. I’d say those are the top three things. Although the range of symptoms can affect every system in the body, from the gastrointestinal system to the central nervous system. So memory can be an issue that the derm system, so skin, skin problems can start accruing. Uh, so, but those are some of the main, main ones.

Dr. Cooper

All right. Let’s, let’s touch on a few of these so women’s weight, but how does this typically influence women’s weight? Is there a, is there a range of, you know, it’s typically five to 10 pounds and when you get above that, it’s, it’s not the perimenopause, it’s not the menopause, it’s something else, any guidance for folks along those lines of what they can be looking for? And then I know you’ve had an incredible journey for yourself in terms of weight loss, maybe a few tips without getting into too many weeds there of how did you deal with that?

Dr. Dunston

Okay. So a lot in there so that when I weighed 243 pounds, I was 47 and in peri-menopause, but I’m a traditionally trained OB GYN and board certified. And I used all the tools I knew, uh, that available in my toolbox at the time to figure out what was wrong and to fix it. And none of the tools were finding any problems and was all the tests were coming back saying I was quote unquote normal. And so I really got to this place where I began to think I was crazy and that I was just, just be obese and continue to gain weight. And I also had other health problems and was on prescription medications. So how does, how did I deal with it back then was the way that probably every woman listening or every coach listening or perspective, who’s going to have female clients is going to tell them, go to their doctor because that’s what we should be doing. That’s what we’re taught to do. But the problem is that the doctors don’t have the answer. We’re not taught how to do the test to figure out the answer. We don’t do hormone tests, not what we’re taught as OB GYN or family practitioners or internal medicine doctors. So unfortunately they don’t really have the answers, but the questions that you, you want to be asking. So when you have these symptoms, basically the way that we’re taught to deal with them is so, um, what is the diagnosis? And a lot of times the diagnosis in medicine is of the symptom. So, uh, heavy irregular, painful periods, the diagnosis is Menno Metro Raja, which means heavy irregular periods. Right? Sounds better. It’s fancy. Exactly. But the truth is it’s still just a symptom. And so when the doctor makes the diagnosis and that’s what they get the ICD 10 code for. And then, then it’s, what is the symptom? What is the drug I need to give or surgery I need to do to stop that symptom from happening because mainstream medicine really is about symptom control. And so they give you a birth control pill. That’s the standard of care treatment for a woman in her perimenopause, having these crazy period problems. And then it basically shuts down her own hormones over it and gives what’s basically a fake period every month. So everyone’s happy, right? Woman’s happy. Oh, my periods back to normal only it’s not really. And the doctor’s happy because the patient’s happy. So that’s, what’s traditionally done. But what I’m going to ask everyone listening to do is to go deeper. And to actually not just when you find water on the bathroom floor, when you come home from work and you clean it up, and then you come home every day for a week and there’s water on the bathroom floor and you keep cleaning it up, right?

Dr. Dunston

That’s the definition of doing the same thing over and over again with the same results. But you’ve got to look for where the water’s coming from. Is there a leak in the sink? Did the toilet overflow, the tub overflow is the window open and the rain got into the dog come in and pee, right? You’ve got to look for the cause of the problem. So what I recommend for perimenopausal women is to actually get your hormone levels tested from a doctor who knows how to do that. And mainstream doctors are not taught in that. They don’t know how to do it. They’re probably going to laugh at you. If you ask for that, or they’re going to tell you, we don’t do that because they’re right. That’s not standard of care in mainstream. Uh, but in my fellowship training and anti-aging metabolic and functional medicine, that’s exactly what we learned how to do. And that you can test these hormone levels, see what they are, see what needs to be adjusted. That was a part of my story. So I couldn’t fix any of my health problems when obese had chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, which is pain in the body every day in different places, depression, anxiety. I had no sex drive. My hair was falling out and I looked and felt 20 years older than I was. And I was just applying the tools that I had been taught with no results. And so when I found this different type of medicine, that’s root cause resolution identification first, then resolution using natural treatments, everything changed for me. And so then the weight started coming off. And so how does a woman know if it’s just peri-menopause was your question, or if it’s something more? So I will say yes, and it is perimenopause and it’s always something more, it’s never just peri-menopause because it goes through our lives and because our healthcare and what we understand about our bodies generally is not a comprehensive understanding of how the body functions. There are problems accruing in the systems in our body as we live life each and every day throughout our lives. And I call perimenopause and menopause, the straw that broke the camel’s back or breaks the camel’s back. It’s the final thing. And then it happens and we blame everything on perimenopause and menopause. But the truth is that’s the tip of the iceberg that sticks above the water you can see, but most of the iceberg is under the water, right? 80% at least. And there are problems with other hormones, cortisol, stress, hormone, insulin, thyroid that have gone undiagnosed because you don’t have any signs. Nobody was doing the test to check. It was your function optimal. And there’s a difference between having a disease and optimal function, totally different things. And so you don’t know it and it happens so gradually over decades that you really discount it. And don’t really, you don’t, it’s not in your awareness. It’s like, how do you boil a frog? You put it in cold water. You turn the heat up very slowly. And then it never tries to jump out because it happened so gradually, they didn’t even realize what was happening. It’s the same for us humans. And for women, then here comes perimenopause menopause, and we go, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. My health is a dumpster, trash fire. Well, it’s perimenopause, it’s menopause. Oh my gosh. It’s never just that. So in order to reverse these problems, identify them, address them properly. You don’t just look at the sex hormones and the reproductive system. You’re only looking at the tip of the iceberg. You got to go underneath and look at everything.

Dr. Cooper

So for somebody listening and they’re like, Oh my gosh, this, this resonates with me so much. I am I’m in this. Where do they start? Now, obviously we’re going to get your contact information. People that want to reach out to you, follow you on your podcast, that kind of thing at the end. But for somebody listening, what could they do today? What are some of the steps? Is it exercise? Some general nutrition? You, you mentioned to the ask your physician for checking the hormone levels. Other things on a practical level that people can be doing.

Dr. Dunston

Yeah. The number one thing you can do is to change your diet because food is information. It’s not just nutrition and it’s not just macronutrients calories from proteins, carbs and fats, right? That’s what we think of it. And then vitamins and minerals. It’s not just that, that fuels our body, but it’s information. Um, and so all of this, basically, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a platitude that we say, Oh, you are what you eat. It’s so much that we don’t ever really think about what that means. Our most intimate relationship in this lifetime. We probably think, Oh, it’s with my spouse or partner, right? No, it’s with the food that you eat every single day. Why is that? Because you are taking the external environment, you’re taking plants and animals and you are putting them in your mouth and you are breaking them down into their building blocks. And you are literally reconstructing your physical body from the external environment. So when you really think about what that means, there is no more intimate relationship. You are what you’re looking at. If you look around, you know, look at a, at a, um, farmer’s pasture and, uh, a farm with animals for slaughter, right? You are that. So when you look at this relationship, that is the number one thing you can do to change anything going on in your body, including your perimenopausal and menopausal symptoms. So, yes. Do we have planned obsolescence? When it comes to our ovaries and our reproductive function, we do, God made us that we have so many eggs and when those eggs are done, they stop making estrogen and progesterone. They cease hormone production. The factory is done. Now, there are some other tissues in the body that can make estrogen and progesterone, but not to the degree of the ovaries, except fat actually can make estrogen and particularly a problematic type of estrogen called estrone. And I say problematic because it more often promotes breast cancer. So you have limited capacity to make estrogen and progesterone. Well, these sex hormones are not just about sex and reproduction. You actually have more of the sex hormone receptors in your brain and central system, then anywhere else. So what does that tell you? It tells you that they’re not just about reproduction they are anti-inflammatory they keep levels of inflammation down in the body. And inflammation is ultimately what kills us. It’s like rust. They’re important for your neuronal health, your, your keeping, your brain healthy, low levels of these sex hormones are associated with increased risk for dementia, including Alzheimer’s and replacing them is a key factor in the protocols that have been shown to improve dementia outcomes. So you, you’ve got to address them all hormones, work in what we call a hormonal symphony. They all interact together.

Dr. Dunston

A lot of mainstream doctors have the understanding, because this is what we’re taught. That these hormones kind of work in silos, they’re all separate, right? They deal with your thyroid or don’t deal with your sex hormones, right? They don’t even deal with cortisol generally, unless they think you have a disease. Uh, and so, and we also so get that idea about all systems in the body, because we go to the gastroenterologist for a GI problem and the neurologist for a brain problem. But the truth is that they are interconnected. So particularly these hormones. So back to the number one thing you can do, being what you eat, cause it’s your most intimate and intimate relationship. It’s programming your hormones in how to behave, directly most or through your insulin hormone, which is the hormone that regulates your blood sugar, keeps it from going too high. It basically signals all your cells, what to do with the calories coming in. And if you’re eating too much, any fast carbs sugars, and it’s raising your, and that high insulin is signaling all your cells, Hey, store calories as fat do not burn fat for fuel. Don’t get rid of it. So that’s number one. So it makes it very difficult to lose weight. And it’s also best friends with thyroid and cortisol, which are some of the main, the three main metabolic drivers. I call them the three Musketeers. And so insulin starts having a problem. Well, what do you, what happens with your friends? When you have a problem, you start hanging out, pulling on your friends, Hey, I can’t deal with everything. I have to deal with my life and you come over to my house and help me, right? So your insulin starts pulling on the thyroid and the thyroid is like, Ooh, now I got a problem. And then it starts pulling on your cortisol a lot. Uh, and your cortisol starts having a problem. Guess what? That makes your sex hormone even worse because though it’s, they start pulling on those three also. And that exacerbates even the heavy, painful periods that we talked about or low sex drive, or whatever’s going on there. So changing what you eat and the number one change to make is cut out all the sugars. Okay, cut out the grains, cut out the processed foods, packaged foods, eat whole foods, primarily vegetables, but be an omnivore. Uh, so get your, your proteins. And, uh, that is the number one action to take.

Dr. Cooper

Beautiful and consistent with so many guests we’ve had on here. So it’s good to hear that being reinforced specific to this topic. So use of hormones, I was listening to another interview of yours preparing for this, and I loved your analogy where you compared it to insulin with diabetes. Because a lot of folks, especially in the health and wellness were like, Oh, everything has to be natural. Don’t take that stuff in. And you were saying, well, yeah, we, we want to be natural. We want to take the best things here, but there’s a place for hormones. Can, can you build on that a little bit for us?

Dr. Dunston

So in particular related to diabetes or just everything?

Dr. Cooper

No. Related to menopause. What’s the role of hormones related to menopause?

Dr. Dunston

Okay, great. So we talked about the planned obsolescence obsolescence of the ovary factory, right? So when you go through menopause, shuts down, no more eggs means no more estrogen and progesterone coming from the ovaries. And well, we also talked about that those sex hormones are not only about reproduction. Yes, that’s part of their function, but the body is very economical. It really doesn’t have anything that just serves one function. Uh, most, everything has multifunction, same with your sex hormones. So those sex hormones go all over your body. Primarily your central nervous system nourish all the nerves in your body are anti-inflammatory nourish your skin, make it healthy, supple, not wrinkly. Uh, and so you, you have benefits from it. So when you go through menopause, all of these hormones go away and it starts in the perimenopause, they are going down. You’re noticing symptoms, well, your cells, then don’t get that signaling because hormones are messengers. So they don’t get the information in order to properly self-repair and so what happens? They start deteriorating and dysfunction occurs. It can be seen in the skin with dull lifeless skin that starts wrinkling and sagging, right? That’s the most obvious, but brain cells start shrinking and going away and not functioning properly. And that short or long-term memory loss or headaches, things like that. It actually affects your gastrointestinal system. So maybe you had great digestion your whole life, but all of a sudden you’re prone to indigestion or bloating or gassiness or irritable bowel, or maybe sometimes you have constipation or diarrhea, right? So it starts affecting your bones that depend on that signaling for proper mineral nourishment. Uh, and so they start becoming thin, which you don’t have any symptoms until later, later, unless you, it checked and you break a bone. And then you’re like, Oh my gosh, I have osteoporosis.

Dr. Dunston

So role of, I am all about natural. And there’s a difference between we’ve really lumped in, when we talk about in the main stream hormone therapy, it is not one thing. It’s like talking about all fruits are going, you know, at all, all fruits are bad. Well, that’s just not true. And it’s the same with hormones. So I distinguish between synthetic, biologically dissimilar hormones, right? So that’s the hormones in birth control pills, which are not the same as the hormones that your body naturally has. Okay. They are chemicals created in a lab. They do stimulate some of the same receptors in a similar way enough to affect that system. But they are chemicals that are not the same as what your body naturally has. I distinguish from those. And that includes the hormone replacement therapy from the women’s health initiative study, where they were looking at Prempro, which had horse estrogen, which is Premarin and Provera, which is their progestin. So neither one of those are natural to what your body has. And they found that there was increased risk of breast cancer and other health problems. And that’s why they stopped the study early. So I distinguish between that hormone therapy and by a biologically similar hormone therapy, which means the same as what your body naturally has your same estradial, estrial, progesterone, testosterone, same as what your body naturally has. Is it made in the lab? Sure. But it’s made to be exactly the same. Just like when you take magnesium, you take the same magnesium that your body naturally has. So your body can use it. You take vitamin D that your body can recognize, right? We don’t go taking some weird chemicals, vitamin D that our body doesn’t know what to do with. So they’re two different things. They’re apples and oranges.

Dr. Dunston

So when we lump them all in the same category, Oh, hormones are bad, right? It’s it shows when someone says that it means that they don’t understand what we’re talking about. And unfortunately we have a pandemic of ignorance about hormone therapy and among doctors too, and healthcare professionals, they don’t even understand this. And I don’t blame them. That used to be me, you know, 20 years ago, because that’s what I was taught. We were taught progestin gesture. I’m a dropsy progesterone acetate, right? Norethindrone the progestin and the birth control pills. Oh, it’s all progesterone, but that’s not true. It’s not true. Progesterone is only, what’s naturally in your body. It’s not what’s in any of those birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy. So we have to talk, compare only apples to apples and oranges, to oranges. And when it comes to hormone replacement, you’ve got your synthetic biologically dissimilar, and you have your biologically identical, which are so-called natural hormones. So I’m not a fan of the, uh, synthetic hormones. But I will say, if you can’t use the natural hormones, uh, you it’s a second best, although it is not preferable. And I actually learned that during I did a summit called stop the menopause madness summit just a couple of months ago and had 53 experts on different topics in menopause. And one of them, Dr. Lindsay Berks, and really she’s done a lot of research on that. She’s one of our grandmothers of this type of medicine. She’s done research in the area and basic research. They really discovered that, you know, we used to think that the, the, the synthetic ones were absolutely worse than nothing, but now we know they actually are better than nothing. Although they do pose their own problems, but best are the biologically identical or so-called bioidentical hormones. So I am, I consider that natural and most of the doctors who practice this way, we call it and consider it natural. Not because it’s picked in a field somewhere, not natural, but natural to what your body naturally has. And it’s interesting because if you take average woman or some women, they hear hormones, right. They’ve heard about the WHI, women’s health initiative study, and they have this, uh, prejudice about hormones. Oh, they’re bad. They’re bad. I don’t want that. But when I explain this to them, well, that’s apples and we’re talking about oranges.

Dr. Dunston

Will they then, but then they’re like still, I want to do a natural menopause. Okay. So you mean to tell me if your body was potassium, deficient, you wouldn’t want to take potassium and they go, no, I would take potassium. Okay. Okay. So you would take the potassium. Um, it’s natural to you, your body needs it. Uh, it’s made in a lab to potassium you’re taking but you don’t want to take a hormone. That’s natural to what your body has. Because what’s the difference between the potassium and the hormone? And they go nothing. Okay. So it’s interesting because sometimes even in medicine, medicine becomes a religion and not science. And that has happened when it comes to women’s health, uh, in particular. Uh, so you have this religion of medicine and most of us have been indoctrinated in that religion. Since we were little kids, you’re sick. You go to the doctor, they give you a shot, you get better. You’re sick. You go to the doctor, give me antibiotic and go about it. Right? The doctor is the authority. But if you realize that you’re in this paradigm, that it doesn’t work and isn’t scientifically based and you go back to the science and say, Hm, science says, women who have these hormones replaced have better bone density, less osteoporosis, less hip fractures. They live longer. They have less dementia, uh, less macular degeneration, right? All the health problems that accelerate. Once we go through menopause. And it’s the same as what my body naturally has and I take magnesium and calcium and I take potassium and I do all these other things that are natural to my health. So I think it becomes a non argument once people understand, right. When they don’t understand, then it just something they’ve heard about and seems scary.

Dr. Cooper

That’s really helpful. So when they’re talking to the doctor, what words do they use to emphasize? I do not want to go the synthetic route, but I do want to go with these biologic hormones.

Dr. Dunston

Well, you call them biologic hormones. I don’t want any hormones foreign to my body. I don’t want any synthetic. Non-biologic hormones. I want what my body naturally has.

Dr. Cooper

That would be a word that they could use going in asking their doctor. I want to utilize biologic hormones. Is that the phrase the doctor would recognize?

Dr. Dunston

Yeah. They can say that. And hopefully the doctor will understand.

Dr. Cooper

Okay. Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you. If not find a different doctor. Um, alright, so non-hormonal, uh, supplements, et cetera, that might ease some of this to supplement the hormones. We’ve already gone down that path. Let’s assume the person’s decided, yes. I’m going to go that route. But in addition to that, are there some other besides better nutrition? Are there some other things they can utilize? You, you, you mentioned kind of a laundry list of magnesium, vitamin D, potassium, but I don’t know if those are just examples or those are things that you would say, you know what these would really help too.

Dr. Dunston

Those are really just examples for the illustration. Um, but in terms of menopause, there are some herbal preparations that have been shown to help like Don Kwai and black cohosh. They can help ease some of the symptoms. There are some solely supplement products. Um, you know, you do need to be careful though, because some of these have estrogen properties, which for the average woman is not a problem. Uh, but I did have this one patient. And, uh, she, she came in and this is before I went on my own journey and did my fellowship training and, uh, anti-aging and functional medicine. So I didn’t know then what I now, but she was having these symptoms. And I did the usual OB GYN treatment, which is birth control pills. And she still wasn’t feeling great. And she came back a while later and she says I found these soy supplements. They’re supposed to help menopause symptoms and I’ve been taking them, but, Oh my gosh, my breasts feel like I just had a baby. And I need to nurse and soy stimulates estrogen receptors. And she was taking way above what she was supposed to was part of the problem. But you do need to be careful, particularly if you have had a breast cancer and you had estrogen receptor positive, or if you have thyroid tumor it could stimulate that, but there are herbals that can help.

Dr. Cooper

Okay. Good. Good. All right. So for the health and wellness coaches that are listening, what are some red flags or indicators that they should be watching for that might indicate a client needs to see an expert, needs to take this next level?

Dr. Dunston

Um, I would say if the things that she’s doing or you’re doing with her, aren’t getting her to where she feels awesome. Some type of education and intervention is needed, an evaluation, um, diet number one, and exercise, uh, which coaches work with also. So exercise has a lot of benefits to improve that insulin function, insulin sensitivity, and insulin resistance actually is pretty common in women at mid-life with their hormonal changes. So the exercise works directly to improve insulin resistance as does changing the diet. But if she’s doing that and actually taking a broad base multivitamin mineral supplement to support her, maybe she’s taking some herbals for the peri-menopause. Um, and she’s, her cycles are still crazy. Although very common at the peri-menopause, um, that might be time to have some type of evaluation or further intervention, or she can’t get her weight down. I see so many women who say, well, you know, I’ve been doing a high-intensity interval exercises, and all of a sudden I’ve had this 10 extra pounds and I can’t lose it. Well, that’s a sign that there are underlying imbalances that are preventing weight loss. But what you need to understand is it’s yes, the weight loss is important. Okay. But it’s more than that. It’s what the failure to lose means, right? It means there are imbalances that need are, need to be corrected because yes, you’re seeing the symptom of weight loss. And I always say that excess weight is actually a blessing because it’s a sign that you have a problem. And when you have that problem, you know, to look deeper, whereas if you don’t have problem, and there are some people whose metabolism is really disordered, but they don’t have a weight problem. So they think they’re fine. Right? So when you have that symptom, you know, to look deeper and then you could diagnose or figure out why you do have a thyroid problem, you have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. When you look at it and you find it early, you can actually prevent destruction of the thyroid and preserve the thyroid and get people back to a normal or euthyroid state. So it’s a symptom that really needs to be evaluated if it’s not resolving with the usual strategies.

Dr. Cooper

Okay, good. Let’s talk to the men in the audience, they’re close to somebody who’s going through this or approaching it, or has been going through it for a year or two. What would be your advice to the men that are saying, how can I help? How can I understand this more? What do I need to watch out for it, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Dunston

Um, you know, mood disturbance is very common because like we’ve talked about these sex hormones nourish the brain, which part of that is your neurotransmitters, and you’re happy they directly affect your serotonin hormone and your dopamine, your internal drive hormone, that men are really high in and driven by because they have higher testosterone. So we can be all over the place. I mean, we, we are cyclic creatures, women, we cycle every month. So most men who are gonna be used to that simplicity, but just know that these cycles can get longer and more profound as she goes through this change. So if a cycle is not coming every 28 days, but maybe it’s coming once every two months, well that two week before the period lasts a month. And so you can get that. So just be prepared for that. Um, and how can you support her? I love this question because I think it’s so important for men to understand women and women to understand man, so that we can support each other. Particularly when we’re in close relationship is to let her know that you know, that she’s going through this because there’s a lot of shame for women around this idea of my fertility, my femininity and worth is linked to my fertility. And if my fertility is going away, then I might not be as lovable or attractive or desirable. And so if you know this, you can let her know, I know you’re going through this and you are a perfectly desirable and lovable and always will to be, to me, it might not be the case for all women. But when I, when I used to do hysterectomy, when I was practicing OB GYN, I would have women all the time say to me, um, you know, they would have concerns before hysterectomy or after about their sexuality and their desirability to their partner. Uh, so I know this, this, this is an issue that women deal with, even if they don’t have a hysterectomy. So just let her know that you understand that you’re there to support, learn what you can about it that really shows an active interest. And nothing says that you care to a woman more than you took the time to learn and understand what she’s going through and voice that, Oh my gosh, you get an a plus.

Dr. Cooper

Do you hear that guys? That’s, that should be an easy a plus you’re trying that’s important. All right. Any different recommendations? And you touched on a couple of these, but any additional recommendations for those with breast cancer or might have additional risk factors for breast cancer?

Dr. Dunston

Yeah. So that’s a good question. If you already have breast cancer, someone’s going to have an oncologist and they’re going to know all the pathophysiology about the type of breast cancer this stage, the grade, was it estrogen, receptor positive. And when it comes to those natural hormones, you know, you fall in a special category. Once you’ve had a hormonally sensitive cancer like uterine cancer or breast cancer. And so you’re going to have to consult with your oncologist and probably some type of holistic or functional medical doctor as well, because oncologists are very skewed towards, uh, no hormones ever for, for anyone. And that’s not always the case. Some people are candidates for it and some aren’t. So it’s very unique, very individual

Dr. Cooper

Good, average length of time. And I, my guess is this is a broad range, but once the symptoms begin, do they, can they start a countdown from, what’s going to be about 18 months, it’s going to be five years or is it just so random? It’s all over the place and it’s not worth throwing a number out there?

Dr. Dunston

Yeah, it’s really unique and random. We say, you know, the meno pauses when you haven’t had a period for 12 months, average age 51. But the time from when someone’s fully fertile and normal until menopause can be five to 10 years, but you’ll talk to some women will say I never had a symptom. I never missed a period. And then one day I stopped getting my period all the way til from 35, my cycles were crazy and I had all this nitty going on with my health all the way till I stopped my period at 55, which is probably on the outside. So it could be that long. So it’s as unique as the woman unfortunately makes it hard to say.

Dr. Cooper

Yeah. Now again, you, you touched on nutrition. Are there other life choices? Are there things, is the research telling us anything about types of exercise? You mentioned exercise. Is there a difference between the high intensity interval training versus long steady endurance versus strength training versus combining various aspects of those? Do, do we know any more about, obviously sleep’s always a benefit. You talked about nutrition, anything else specific to exercise or variations of things that we haven’t talked about?

Dr. Dunston

Right. Well, exercise is key. We do need that high intensity interval type exercise, but really some women either overdo it, but really three times a week, uh, is what the data shows, you know, Debra Atkinson who does flipping 50 podcasts is really the go-to expert on exercise for women at midlife. Uh, so three times a week hit training three times a week, strength training, all muscle groups. You really don’t have to, a lot of women are, are doing CrossFit, you know, five and seven days a week. I see those women all the time and they overdo it and you can stress your hormones out by overdoing it. You can also stress them out by underdoing it. So if you’re a couch potato, um, then that’s not gonna work. So three times a week with the hit and three times a week, the strength training, and don’t forget flexibility training. One of the biggest causes of injury in the elderly is instability and falls. And so a lot of trainers that aspect, you know, stretching for a few minutes before and after you work out is not necessarily enough to release that connective tissue around the joints effectively. And so I always recommend regular yoga practice. That includes a yin yoga or sort of yoga aspect that really has prolonged stretches of up to five minutes to really condition the joints and really allow that fascia to stretch around in the joint is key that I find a lot of women underestimate.

Dr. Cooper

Okay. That’s helpful. Really helpful. Um, I have one more question for you kind of a wrap up, but prior to that best way, for folks to keep track of you reach out to you. They’ve got questions, you’ve got a podcast, give us the full laundry list so people can keep up with what you’re up to.

Dr. Dunston

Oh, sure. Well, they can join me on her brilliant health revolution on Apple podcasts. They can check out my website, KyrinDunstonmd.com. I’ll spell it because it’s a little weird.

Dr. Cooper

I was just going to say, let’s give that to them.

Dr. Dunston

K Y R I N D U N S T O N MD.com @kyrindunstonmd.com on Facebook and Instagram. Um, and also on YouTube and have her brilliant health secrets on YouTube.

Dr. Cooper

So you don’t have much going on, basically.

Dr. Dunston

Not much at all.

Dr. Cooper

All right. Yeah. It sounds like it. I understand that one. All right. So just kind of a wrap up kind of pull the loose ends together. Anything I didn’t ask about final words of wisdom for either folks that are going through menopause, perimenopause it’s coming it’s there or the people around them. So kind of a catch all here at the end?

Dr. Dunston

Sure, well, I’ll just start with number one is your diet. What you may be able to have tolerated years ago becomes no bueno at perimenopause and menopause. So get rid of the sugars and the, the, a lot of the carbs, bread, pasta, white rice, white potatoes, that stuff, and to balance your insulin, which helps to balance all your other hormones and eases the symptoms of menopause and perimenopause so that they’re not pathologic, right? It doesn’t have to ruin your life. So diet would be number one. And I have to put exercise also has hormone balancing benefits. So doing the training strength training helps to balance your hormones helps to ease the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause. And then number three, I’d say even before hormones is your stress management system, which we didn’t talk much about, but your cortisol is your stress hormone. And one of the reasons why menopause is so pathologic in America is because we have undiagnosed and unaddressed cortisol problems and cortisol stress hormone that regulates your sleep wake cycle, your energy level, your weight, your immune system, whether you get sick or not, whether you get cancer or not. And so our menopause is so much worse because our cortisol for most of us is tanked because we’ve been living in overdrive stress response. So number three would be managing that and you can start doing meditation practices also really, you know, don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s all, it’s just small stuff. Let it go. And just go with the flow.

Dr. Cooper

Wait I thought we were talking about other people, now you’re talking to me?

Dr. Dunston

Hey, yeah, I’m talking to you, uh, doing heart rate variability tracking, which I’m sure is something that you talk about. I do have my, uh, clients work with the HRV app, so they can do resonance breathing exercises to train that stress response system to calm it down. So I’d say that’s number three and all those would come before the hormones. Uh, those are the things I would recommend. I find a lot of women when they do those three things get so much better that maybe they don’t even need hormones for a long time until they get to menopause. You know, once you get to menopause, that’s kind of the tipping point, right. But that’s what I would leave everyone with.

Dr. Cooper

Dr. Dunston fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. This was packed. Loved it. We will definitely keep up with what you’re up to. And thanks again.

Dr. Dunston

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Dr. Cooper

You’ve already shared this with a couple of folks, haven’t you? Yeah. We’ve received quite a few questions around this topic. So we are grateful to Dr. Dunston for her willingness to join us and share so many valuable insights. Thanks to you for tuning into the number one podcast for health and wellness coaching. Next week’s episode well, it’s one of our hidden gems. Now I won’t give it away, but I can tell you, our guest is among the top two or three best-selling authors we’ve ever had on the podcast. He’s the writer I’d like to be when I grow up, even though he’s 17 years younger than I am. As always feel free to reach out to us with any questions about your current or future coaching career Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com or tap into additional health wellness, performance resources at CatalystCoachingInstitute.com. Now it’s time to be a catalyst making a positive impact in the lives of our clients and community without burning ourselves out in the process. This is Dr. Bradford Cooper of the Catalyst Coaching Institute. I’ll speak with you soon on another episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast, or maybe over on the YouTube coaching channel.