The One to One Future Revisited

Dr. Cooper

Welcome to the latest episode of the Catalyst Health and Wellness Coaching podcast. I’m your host, Dr Bradford Cooper and today’s episode will come from a little different angle. The customer experience. If you’re in a leadership, management or entrepreneurial role, I think you’ll find our guests insights fascinating. But we’ll also bring the discussion back to how wellness program managers and coaches can utilize these strategies in their everyday lives. Our guest is Don Peppers, who wrote a book back in 1993 titled The One To One Future. In business we called it the Bible of the new marketing, and Ink magazine’s editor, I love this, called it one of the two or three most important business books ever written. On a personal level, I agreed. The concepts in that book were instrumental in the way we designed US Corporate Wellness when we first developed it to focus on the one on one relationship between the employees and their own personal wellness coach. Mr Peppers is a marketing futurist and trend spotter, which you’ll clearly here during our interview. He’s gone on to write nine books, which have sold over a 1,000,000 copies have been translated into 18 languages. He earned a degree in astronautical engineering from the Air Force Academy as well as a masters from Princeton. And he’s pretty sure he’s the only actual rocket scientist in the advertising industry.

Dr. Cooper

For those of you who happen to be involved in your organization’s health and wellness program strategy, but you just sense something’s missing, especially after listening to this, I’d be happy to set up a call to discuss different options. I rarely mention this on the podcast, but our company, U. S. Corporate Wellness, provides comprehensive wellness programs to organizations across the country. But if you already have a program in place, you don’t want to start over, but you do want to make it more personally meaningful for your team members. It’s very easy for us. We’re doing much more of this these days where we just integrate the coaching this best in class coaching into any program, and we can practically do it overnight. So reach out to me. My personal email is BCooper@USCorporateWellness.com if you’d like to do a little brainstorming. Now, it’s time to go one on one with Don Peppers on this episode off the Catalyst Health and Wellness coaching podcast.

Dr. Cooper

Don. It is a pleasure to have you on the show, and I appreciate it.

Don Peppers

Thanks for having me Brad.

Dr. Cooper

The book that you wrote with Martha Rodgers in 93, The One to One Future, I’ve spent with you offline, that’s changed my perspective on a lot of things. And it, frankly, I think it changed the way organizations looked at marketing and moved the focus over to the individual. You’re basically a decade ahead of the rest of the world, but now people think it must have always been that way. With all of those changes 20 years or so 25 years ago, with all the changes, what have we learned in recent years about this whole 1 to 1 relationship?

Don Peppers

Well, the whole idea of building relationships with customers was something Martha and I thought would be inevitable with the development of interactivity and better computer technology. So it turns out that we were right, but the the customer relationship revolution really is morphed into the customer experience revolution. If you think about it now, very few businesses go into business without thinking carefully about the experience their customers have in buying the product, using the products, returning the product if they need to. They think carefully about each customer’s journey or experience with the product. Businesses have learned to think that way because it used to be that they had to think of the average customer. And they can hypothesize things but, a lot of times they were wrong. And now you can treat different customers differently based on what you learn about them and so forth. And so the CX discipline, the customer experience discipline is in full flower now. I think if you think carefully about the experience that customers have with you, you’ll realize that customers don’t buy your product in order to have an experience. Okay? They buy the product because they want to solve a problem, or meets some need. Right? So the ideal experience would be no experience. The problem just goes away. That would be the most convenient customer experience. You know, your product solves my problem without me doing a thing.

Don Peppers

So increasingly, brands are looking to create frictionless experiences. An experience that the customer almost doesn’t notice that they can easily put their product to use and so forth and sucking the friction out of the experience is what businesses are using automation to do in gene learning and artificial intelligence. What they learned, however, is that customers also crave human contact. Okay, they want the human connection. They want to be engaged. They want, you know, what the customer wants is to be emotionally attached. If the customer’s gonna be loyal to you, you need that engagement that attachment. And I think that’s something that businesses are now coming to grips with, in droves. I know they would have, just while on the subject, I know that there was a 2018 pwc study, a survey of 15,000 consumers, 75% said they want more human contacts, not less. So I think that’s the newest direction that you can move in is human contact, that level of engagement.

Dr. Cooper

That is fascinating, especially with the audience we’re talking about. And it kind of sets up the next question because most of our listeners are either health and wellness coaches or they’re thinking about going that way or they’re involved in some way with their employers wellness program. And it’s still the same concept. So this idea that the majority of folks were not saying, oh yeah, an app is fine. Oh yeah, a website’s fine. I want that human contact. That’s where these coaches are coming in, having an impact. So with that in mind, let’s look at this in two different ways. Let’s look at the employer, so somebody who’s involved in helping organize the employers approach to health and wellness. So this is increasing participation, engagement, and we’ll talk more specifically about engagement in a minute because I know that’s a big focus of yours now. But how does that, as an organization, thoughts on how they can increase employee participation and engagement in their wellness program? And you can generalize that because this is you know, that’s not your specific area, but guidance in that area that you can provide us?

Don Peppers

Sure, I’ve actually done a lot of thinking in that area. I’m doing more and more presentations on this topic. The whole idea around customer experience is to put yourself in the customer’s shoes and imagine what life would be like. And how would you like to be treated if you were the customer? I think employers have exactly the same problem when they deal with their employees. What would you like to be treated like if you would be employed? How is your employee experiencing the job? And again, friction is the enemy, but you’d be surprised how many companies have great technologies for their customers. But the technology the employee has to use is outdated or over, you know, over used. It’s not useful enough. Sometimes you could talk to contact center people who have 4 or 5 screens open at one time just to get the drill down and the information up. So a lot of times employers are not as diligent about taking a friction out of their employees experiences as they are about using automation and technology to take the friction out of their customer experiences. So you have to do that first. First you have to take the friction out of the employees experience, right? No matter who your workers are, you don’t want them to have to go to trouble to do their job. You want them to be able to do their job.

Don Peppers

But once you’ve done that, then you need to make the emotional connection with the employee also as if he were a customer, or she. You know you want the employees to want to work with you like you want your customers to want to buy from you. Why? Well, it could be because there’s some mission that underlies your business that you want your employees to embrace that mission. It could be that you were letting your employees master their skill and take charge and become more involved in solving customer problems and things like that. There are many ways you could engage your employees. But overall, you want those employees to have a streamlined specialist experience and to sort of bridge the gap between reducing friction and in permitting engagement. The employee has to be well, they have to be healthy. They have to be able to think about business and not just their personal problems, or their declining health or the financial disaster waiting at home or whatever.

Dr. Cooper

Because that’s additional friction.

Don Peppers

That’s friction. That’s friction. I think a lot of times employers and maybe not the audience on this podcast. But there are a lot of employers, and we all know them, who treat their employees like they were robots or algorithms, you know. Here’s the process, here’s the rules, you did you just push tab A with box B, and that’s what we do. But employees, you know, are human beings and you want to embrace their humanity. And that sometimes needs admitting faults, being honest, being straightforward with employees. And you want them to embrace your mission in the business world.

Dr. Cooper

Fantastic. This is going in a fun direction. All right, let’s shift it just slightly to the individual who’s trying to start their own business, whether it’s a health and wellness coach or in some other business where they’re trying to garner more clients, they’re trying to give their one on one clients these great experiences, any tips that might fit into that?

Don Peppers

Yeah, yeah, If I were starting a new business, I would make sure that everybody in my company understands that the goal is not just an immediate sense, that’s important. But what’s really, really even more important is that when we get new customers in, we want to cultivate those customer relationships so that you get repeat customers that we get recommenders. They recommend us to their friends that they like us. We want them to be delighted and happy with the service or product that we have given. You can amuse them or entertain them. You can amaze them. But find a way to surpass your customer’s expectations and this is harder and harder because customers expectations are going up, up, up. But today it’s still possible. Still possible with some basic human decency to be friendly with customers and to make them your friends. Friends buy more from friends than they buy from others.

Dr. Cooper

Yeah, yeah, price is rarely the issue anymore. It tends to be that relationship. And I love that word. Delighted. I wrote that down in all caps. That is a key word. If we can keep that in mind, that’s gonna go a long way to get results.

Don Peppers

I want you to keep in mind something, Okay? Your employees that you’re asking to do this you can’t write a business rule or a process rule or a line of code that results in employees, delighting customers. The employee has to want to do that. So how do you have employees first who want to do that? We want the employees to be engaged enough to do that. And that’s a strong business.

Dr. Cooper

Beautiful. Alright let’s talk engagement specifically, that’s been an area of emphasis for you in recent years. Why is engagement so important? And you’ve touched on that a little bit. But could you expand on that a little bit more for us?

Don Peppers

Well, engagement inherently implies an emotional connection. So it’s not just a flawless experience whether you’re the customer or the employees, but it’s endearing or it’s happy. It makes you happy. It leaves you a good feeling. And as the saying goes, you won’t remember what I say, but you will remember how I make you feel. And I think that’s a really, really important aspect of what we’re talking about with employees, especially. Now, there are a lot of ways you could do that. Let me just give you a couple of examples. Okay. I talked with a company in Australia, and they said that they sell a complicated product. And sometimes a customer calls in, and they have a problem with the product, and they contact the contact center, right, and they have this problem. But the customer didn’t use the product correctly, and maybe they didn’t install it right? You know, it’s a complex thing. Maybe they thought they could take a shortcut or whatever. And sometimes the problem is encountered for which the customer service agent, there’s no, you know, there’s no good solution, let’s say. And the customers clearly at least at fault partly. But rather than simply say, sir, I’m sorry, you just didn’t follow directions, you’re SOL on this. The customer service agent is encouraged to say, Mr Pepper, you bought your product and thank you very much, but you didn’t really install it the right way. And now, I’ll tell you what, what do you think would be fair? And then they shut up and they let the customers say, well, okay, how about if I get half my money back and you send me another product, something like that, I make a suggestion. Now that’s an engaging thing to say. What do you think would be fair? It’s a terrifically engaging idea with a customer in the right circumstances. And it introduces an element of humanity. No Chapa will ever suggest that. If I were discussing something with a Chapa and he asked me what I thought was fair, I’d try to game the system because he’s got no feelings. So that’s an example of how forward thinking companies are relying on their employees not just as costs and ciphers of following rules and procedures and reading a strip that the computer says, but using their brains and their judgement and their wisdom to improve the lives of their customers in a way that’s fulfilling for the employee. Employees love this because it lets them assert themselves and help the customer at the same time while they feel like they’re being responsible.

Don Peppers

I’ll give you one other example, there’s a bank that when a customer calls in and has a problem for which the contact center agent, the computer doesn’t have any solution for right, there’s no scripted solution to this problem. The agents can, if they think they know a fair thing to do for the customer that’s fair for the customer and fair for the bank, they’re authorized to offer it automatically to the customer immediately. All they need to do is get the permission of what the agreement of one other contact center agent. One of the front line employees. You think this is a fair thing to do? Yeah, I agree. So we both signed off on it. Now I’m gonna say, here Mr. Peppers, how about we do this and I make that suggestion. I talked to the CMO at the bank that introduced this program a few months after she introduced it, she said in the four or five months, they’ve been running the program they only had a 20 or 30 two person solutions. They hadn’t had to reverse anyone. Several of them have been used as models for the whole system. But she said what was really interesting was that her contact center employees were all jazzed. They were wired now because they’re helping customers on their own. And I think that’s the kind of, relying on our humanity. Humanity is an asset. It’s not across the road weakness. It’s an asset. The question is how do you tap into it the right way.

Dr. Cooper

So good. All right, let me try to put this in a coaching context and see if you have some thoughts here. Let’s say you’re a health and wellness coach and you’re coaching me and you’ve been coaching me for six months and I come to you and say, Don, I’m just not getting better. I’m just not improving whatever it is that we’re working on. And, you know, as the coach, you’ve looked at the notes you’ve looked at our conversations our goal is set. You know, I frankly haven’t been doing much. I’m just, I’ve had these things. I make commitments to you, and then I walk away and I do things completely different. Any tips on how that might play out?

Don Peppers

Well, that’s the kind of thing that a teacher would learn right way. You let the, I’m telling you, you probably know better than I do. But I would say you let the employees describe their own progress and you ask the employees to assess themselves. The employee probably knows what’s happening and then have a discussion with the employee that, you know, What can we both do? It’s a mutual problem. We have this mutual problem. We both want your level of engagement to improve and your happiness to improve on the job. What can we do? And you put it in a collaborative framework like that. And by the way, I have to say, you know, the modern organizations are much more collaborative than old line organizations. The old industrial model of command and control, top down bureaucracy. It’s no longer really working like it used to. You know, there’s no employee that’s more than a click away from the CEO if they want to. And so increasingly, fostering collaborative approaches and trust based cooperation is a key skill. I have a personal feeling that within a generation or maybe two the majority of senior managers are going to be women because and don’t call me sexist for saying this, But I do think women are fundamentally more naturally collaborative than men.

Dr. Cooper

Well and the whole EQ. Yeah, absolutely.

Don Peppers

Yeah. So that’s where I’d go. I’d say, you know, you try to turn it into a mutually solvable problem and don’t jump to solutions, but, start with the problem and make sure that the employee takes as much ownership of the problem as you do and maybe work with them to try to solve it jointly.

Dr. Cooper

Very good. Very good. And I think that is consistent with the way that most coaches would approach that. But I was just curious from your perspective, so I’m glad to see those line up. All right. So surprises with engagement. What have you learned about this concept of engagement that might surprise our listeners?

Don Peppers

Well, you know the whole idea of engagement, because it’s emotional, the first surprise is you can’t really measure it with a survey. Not very well. You just can’t measure it with a survey very well. And levels of engagement change these days so rapidly, the surveys of engagement that you’ll see, if you measure engagement every year at the same time, you know the field of behavioral economics. You know that people are emotional. Well, Daniel Kahneman and Amos Taversky won the Nobel Prize. Well Kahneman won the Nobel prize for behavioral economics a few years ago, and one of the things that they are famous for suggesting Is that when people are investing or buying things, all change is relative. Okay, so if you look at a person’s life, in purely rational economic terms. Let’s suppose you have two people, Amy and Bob. Each one is worth a $1,000,000 today. An economists would say they should be equally happy. Okay, but suppose I tell you that yesterday Amy was only worth 1/2 a $1,000,000 today she’s worth a $1,000,000. Yesterday, Bob was worth $2,000,000 but today he’s only worth $1,000,000. Now do you think they’re equally happy? Of course not.

Don Peppers

Engagement is like that. If I asked you about your engagement in your job, the answer you’re gonna give me is well relative to what? My life in general relative to what happened last month or the month before or the week before that. You know, it’s an inherently subjective metric, and you have to normalize the engagement surveys. What people are finding is that when they look at engagement surveys, they’re finding that levels of reported engagement are fluctuating much more rapidly today than they would have you know, 15 or 20 years ago. Probably because the pace of change is accelerating. And so, I think something that’s important is that you have to measure it on a more frequent basis and you have to do it in a way where your surveys are supplemented by actual interviews, human interviews and fact finding. And that’s something a lot of HR people don’t really do as well as they probably ought to. They are much more into surveys and online reporting.

Don Peppers

Another thing is if you’re looking at the level of productivity and value creation that an employee has, you want an employee that’s loyal to you. That is engaged, enthusiastic, and works hard. There are three separate kinds of determinants. A person could be engaged with the job. I really like my job. They could be engaged with the company. I love the company I’m working for, but they also have their own intrinsic level of motivation. That’s what we call grit. Some people just stick to it all the time, they pull ahead and go ahead and do it. And all three of these types of asset in an employee, they’re three distinct values. You really have to think carefully about them because a person’s level of intrinsic motivation is probably the single most important aspect of those over and above the engagement with the job and the engagement of the company. The second most valuable metric is probably engagement to the job. Engagement to the company sort of comes last because the company allows him to do the job in a sense. So we really have to think, carefully when we began to measure employee engagement. And it’s not just a number, it’s complicated.

Dr. Cooper

OK, so speaking of complicated, is there a way for a coach who’s in a one on one relationship already, that’s their role, they’re serving this individual client. Whether that’s an employee or a private client. Is there a way for that coach to glean some concept about how is that clients engagement? How’s that employees engagement with them as a coach?

Don Peppers

Well, yeah. If you have a regular interaction with employee, worker, you’re coaching somebody. I would assume that the interactions whether they’re daily or weekly or monthly, you should keep a record, a notebook. And you might want to have your own sort of mood meter, for employees and when an employee is in a good mood or a bad mood. You remark on it. It’s almost like psychoanalysis. I mean, really, you want the employee to speak back to you, you know, in a way that the employee can understand himself or herself. So what I’m saying about engagement is that the employee has to have the friction taken out of the experience. So he needs to have the right technology and tools and data to do the job and you’re authority to take action and so forth, all those are friction. But once that friction is taken out, then you want the employee to be able to feel a sense of mastery over what they’re doing. The way that contact center agent might feel when they come up with a solution to a problem that the computer didn’t have yet. You want them to feel like they’re appreciated by their colleagues, by the employees themselves. You want them to be liked by the customers or the employees are working with them. And I guess in the long run, I think the real competitive battle is going to go to the employees and managers who are most able to apply what is called the principle of reciprocity. How good am I at treating others the way I would like to be treated if I were in their situation. How good am I at that? Am I defensive? Am I constantly looking for the numbers? Or am I really trying to understand what’s going on with the employee I’m coaching? And my feeling is that that principle of reciprocity, which is found in every major religion and Christian religion, it’s called the golden rule. It’s in every major religion. Except one. There’s one religion that has no principle of reciprocity. Voodoo. In Voodoo God is bad and you just stay out of his way. But every ethical philosophy begins with this idea that you should treat others the way you like to be treated if you were them. And that’s the way an employer should be treating its employees. And that’s how a business should be treating its customers. So that would be my true north if I was looking for direction.

Dr. Cooper

Perfect. You mentioned a little bit about this next question earlier in terms of the friction that’s reduced with the employee. But we do have some HR managers and benefit consultants that listen in, so let’s target this to them. Some studies are starting to show that health and wellness programs can help, if they’re done well with the personal coaching piece, can improve the overall things like turnover, that kind of thing. Any insights on why you think that’s the case? Why does the coaching part of that the health and wellness coaching, not the employee coaching, not the executive coaching health and wellness coaching? Why does that positively influence those aspects?

Don Peppers

Well, I don’t have a research on this, but I suspect that the fact that people’s reported level of engagement goes up and down with time. It goes up, down, up, down, up, down. Which reflects the up and down off their lives. And that sort of represents friction in their lives. When I have friction, I feel less engagement than when I don’t have friction. Okay, so there is research on customers, and something that is interesting is that the CEB, the corporate executive board found in a survey of almost 100,000 consumers that there’s very little correlation between customer satisfaction and customer loyalty. And the reason for that is because there’s lots of companies you can go to, and you’ll be just as equally satisfied. However, there’s a great deal of correlation between customer dissatisfaction and disloyalty, so that’s friction. So employee loyalty is the same, and the friction occurs when I wasn’t able to get something done that I should have been able to do simply because the tools aren’t there or when I had to spend the morning trying to figure out how to get my car out of hock because you know, I got in an accident and I can’t afford the payments. Or my kids need back to school stuff and the payday, isn’t until two weeks from now. I have some personal issue that I’m dealing with in my life on, and it’s causing friction. One of the reasons why friction causes people to leave is because it gives them the chance to think about, it gives them the motive to think about what might be at some other place. And I think that that when you are, well, mentally, physically well, when you’re financially well, when you feel like your life is in good shape, you have less friction, and you have less reason to consider going someplace else. So you’re less likely to go on to do your job on autopilot. You’re you’re less likely to be tempted to try to find other employment. And I think that that’s a, and studies have shown that at least I know that financial wellness for instance is a key driver of employee attrition, you know? But you know if I’m in a financial problem, and I can find a job for 50 cents more an hour. I might just take it, so I think for wellness coaches detecting those moments of friction is really critical.

Dr. Cooper

Good stuff. Good stuff. All right, so for you personally, as a consultant, speaker, obviously you’ve got a reputation, people know you. But even so, how are you integrating the 1 to 1 marketing, the focus on engagement in your business?

Don Peppers

Well, I run a small business, only a few people, but I’ve always believed in a sharing kind of business. So we basically we have a business, it’s a speaking, so we collect fees, and then we split those fees up among us. And it’s a kind of a co-op. But I’m a very simple situation because it’s a small business. It’s my business. It’s personal performance, and it’s a lot of fun. And truth be told I’d probably do it for free,

Dr. Cooper

I won’t tell anybody. Know you touched on this one earlier too, we’re in the last two questions here. But as you peer into your crystal ball, where do you see the next steps, in terms of the one on one engagement focused approaches?

Don Peppers

Well, one easy fix you see today more and more, it has to do with the financial stress that the front line workers are in. You know the widely footed statistic is something like 60% of consumers don’t even have $400 to spend if they run into an emergency. And believe it or not, one of the very last vestiges of the batch processing technology is pay day. We all get paid on the same day. I mean, if I work in a 9 to 5 job, I work 9 to 5 9 to 5 9 to 5. But I have to work 10 days before I get paid. And so you see a lot of people who are financially strapped. Not that they haven’t earned the money, but they just don’t have the pay yet for it. And one sign of that is the prevalence of payday lenders in this country. Did you know that there are more payday lender operations than there are McDonald’s.

Dr. Cooper

Oh, my word. Wow.

Don Peppers

You and I probably don’t see them that much. But a lot of people see them all of the time. So earned wage access is a burgeoning field. I’m advising one company Pay Active, that if you’re an employer you offer pay active to your employees as an app, they download it on their smartphone and on any given day they can see how much money they’ve earned, but not yet been paid. They can push a button and you can access a portion of it immediately for just a small membership fee. They don’t have to pay the 40% interest or $50 co pay that you have to pay a payday lender or a title lender and it’s been shown to dramatically improve employee retention. I think it’s only a matter of time before everybody has access to the pay they’ve already earned when they’ve earned it. And then it’s up to you. As an employee, you can make an adult decision about when you take your pay. Do you wait, do you take it now, do you take it then. And it’s more of an economic decision. You’re not just working for the company store anymore. It’s your money.

Dr. Cooper

Right. Very good. All right. Last one, wide open. Any final words of wisdom for those who are involved in the whole health and wellness arena in terms of increasing their influence over the coming years?

Don Peppers

Yeah, back to the principal of reciprocity. Treating employees the way you’d like to be treated if you were the employees. I don’t think your employees work for you just for the salary and compensation. They’re gonna wanna work with you when they think that you have their interests at heart. Okay, not just your own company’s profits or efficiency. And so I would urge everyone in HR departments all around the country around the world to begin thinking of their employees as human beings with lives, who want to mean something to the company. And they’re not just arms and legs attached to a brain. They are thinking, feeling human beings of emotions and creativity and wisdom and empathy. And the ability to connect with your customers. So let’s use them that way.

Dr. Cooper

So, in a coaching setting, you’re saying we make sure they get it that you really care. You’re not just checking boxes. You’re not just calling them cause they’re next on your list. You want to make sure that client understands you’re coaching me, and yes, it’s part of your job. But you really care about me as your client.

Don Peppers

Yes. Yeah, think of it this way. The business goal of hiring employees is to have that employee create value for the business. You want to create the most value for your business with very employee, right?

Dr. Cooper

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Don Peppers

Okay, so my argument is that the employee is likely to create the most value for this employer, and about the time that he thinks the employer is getting the most value for him or her. Now when is that? It’s when they think that you’re acting in their interest when you have their interests at heart. That’s when you’re creating so much value for your employees. So that’s going to, in the end, be a really long lasting business advantage to have employees and employers that have a mutually reinforced relationship based on trust.

Dr. Cooper

Don, I really appreciate it. Thanks for joining us.

Don Peppers

Brad. It was my pleasure. Thank you, sir.

Dr. Cooper

Did you catch all of that? An effective health and wellness strategy reduces friction for employees in their everyday pursuits. As an employee, people crave human contact. 75% of people want more, not less human contact in their interactions. Folks, this is powerful stuff. That’s why you as a health and wellness coach, or maybe you’re thinking about going that route. Health and wellness coaching matters. It’s so critical to engagement and to outcomes. I loved, I don’t know if you caught this, but I loved his concept of this delighted customers. You know, we always hear about exceed expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s like 100 years ago, but delighted customers due to relationships. What a powerful word. Such an important, important element for us to remember regardless of what our role is. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. After our 1st 50 episodes, we looked back over the topics we covered and realized we pretty much neglected the business side of health and wellness and wellness coaching. So I actually reached out to four of the most respected experts worldwide that I could think of, all of the books I’d read, everything else and said, let’s try it. And all four of them, all four of them were kind enough to say yes. It goes without saying we were thrilled. They have been so gracious, and we’ve got two more that I know you’re gonna love.

Dr. Cooper

If you’re wanting to pursue your wellness coach certification before the national board exam requirements increase. Our next fast track in Colorado is February 8th and 9th. Or if that one sold out or the date doesn’t work for you, you can join us on April 4th and 5th, also in Colorado. Or you can pick the distance learning option as well, and you want to contact us if you’re debating between those two because there are a few subtle differences in terms of outcomes. Details at CatalystCoachingInstitute.com or, if you’ve got questions, e mail us anytime. Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com. Now it’s time for better. Remember, folks, wellness is not all about food and fitness. Wellness is about better. Taking one often small step toward becoming better than we were yesterday or helping someone else become better than they were yesterday. Sometimes that may involve food or exercise decisions, but it could just as well involves sleep, life balance, stress channeling, relationships development, or dozens of other components. If your health and wellness program in your company is all about food and fitness, or if you’ve been focusing on just those things as a coach, maybe it’s time for a change. And maybe you’re the one who could help change it. Thanks for joining us. This is Dr Bradford Cooper signing off. Make it a great rest of your day and I’ll speak with you soon on the next episode off the Catalyst Health and Wellness Coaching podcast.